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I hate you one zillion times and forever

Last week I posted about the Mohammad cartoons. As a follow up to this post, I have found a video that demonstrates freedom of speech in action again. I have to admit I admire these two men for their courage, but wonder if maybe they went to far. After seeing the pictures on the Labaf blog and watching their video it is easy to see why the Muslims were so upset. I have links to the French and English version of their blog where you can watch the video at the end of this post.
*I did have the video on my blog but took it off because I decided I didn’t like the picture of Mohammad shown at the beginning of the video to sit on my blog. As much as I believe in free speech, I don’t want to provoke or hurt others.
I have continued to talk about this topic with my husband, family and others in the comments box on this blog. I finally have decided that in the end we must not censor speech. Therefore, freedom of speech is exactly that…the freedom to say anything we want. It is not freedom of speech that is the problem. The problem is that people are behaving badly.
I would hope that in todays world people would work towards understanding and respect and not more fighting and pain. I see the cartoons as a perfect example of how adults behave as children. Not because of the cartoons being printed but because of how people on both sides are acting out in response to one another.

It reminds me my little brother and I laying on the couch as kids. I would kick him and he would kick me a little harder and I would kick him back a little harder and so on. I would tell him that I hated him and he would tell me that he hated me more and I would tell him I hated him more and more and so on.

This would go on until my mother came in and gave us both a good smack on the rear. Of course, we both screamed that the other had started it. Her response was that it did not matter who started it. We were both wrong in the end because both of us were participating in the kicking and name calling.

To read more about this in French visit the Labaf blog here.

To read more about this in English visit the Labaf blog here.

Comments on this entry are closed.

  • Julie February 16, 2006, 1:54 pm

    That is so true! People are losing their minds over this. I don’t know exactly what is causing people to act this way. I heard that the aggressive behavior in school girls, in both England and the U.S., has gone up 5 times in the last 2 years. I don’t know what to make of it. Everyone is going crazy.

  • Pumpkin Pie February 16, 2006, 4:33 pm

    I think it is a social issue as to why the girls are getting more violent. I think girls are becoming less afraid to speak out than when I was younger. This is just a personal observation.

    I think it is easy to say that the world is getting more crazy. I have said it too. Then, I look to history and realize we just don’t learn our lessons very well.

  • Wendy February 16, 2006, 10:44 pm

    Spot on – we haven’t learnt our lessons. And we never will – man is man, weak, fallible and selfish – and our memories are shorter than our lifespans.

  • Richard February 16, 2006, 11:27 pm

    It is one thing to say we are all crazy and another to examine what our words really mean. I have met few people who were not capable of believing two contradictory ideas at once, i.e. Orwell’s concept of doublethink.

    So the world is crazy now and was in the past as well. What are you doing to stop that in your self.

    If it were 1932 in Germany and our two friends were wearing signs opposing Hitler during a National Socialist march and had the equivalent of a blog that had a cartoon insulting the fuhrer what would you say? My guess is you would have said they had gone too far. Why? Please don’t think I you are take you for National Socialists. It is that you wish to be nice and not upset people and after all, Adolph, being a political animal, knew how to say some soothing things when he felt it expedient (like he did at Munich and boy did the French and Brits cheer like fools when he pulled that one).

    So is the threat from political Islam as bad as from Hitler? To the Question was the Third Reich evil, I would say most of us are 100% accurate in our judgements when we apply hindsight.

  • Pumpkin Pie February 17, 2006, 1:19 am

    I was thinking more of wars like between France and England (the one hundred years war) but you are right to bring up World War II and it could even be said about the American govt hunting down communists in Hollywood around the fifties.

    We are easily misled.  My point is that we should be smart about how we go about fighting against ignorance.  I am well aware of the danger of extremist.  Actually, I think one is in the White House.  It is people like this that get power and serve it for their own purpose.  I don’t think it is about anything other than power.  These people want to have the last word or will the last battle.

    I don’t think I would have supported Hitler.  I said that these guys may have went too far because if you went to the blog I had a link to you would have seen that one of the guys had a cut off hand with a pen in it on a plater of some kind hanging from around his neck.   That is a bit stronger than a sign.  Actually, when I first saw the video I thought that it was silly that the demonstrators were getting so angry at a couple of guys with a Danish flag.  Then I saw the pictures on their blog.  I think they made a strong point but I also think it is fair to say that it was a bit too strong.

  • Pumpkin Pie February 17, 2006, 1:30 am

    So is the threat from political Islam as bad as from Hitler? To the Question was the Third Reich evil, I would say most of us are 100% accurate in our judgements when we apply hindsight.

    And, what about the political Evangelist or what about Israel and Palestine? Is Israel any better than Palestine? The list could go on forever.

    There are lots of bad guys in this world that hide behind religion.

  • Pumpkin Pie February 17, 2006, 7:20 pm

    I don’t have a good picture to put on the blog yet of my living room window showing the two small windows on each side. The window is a bay window and is very beautiful. Funny thing is when we first moved in there was nothing in the living room but a tv and kitchen table with four chairs. We had no furniture! The windows kept my spirits up.

  • Richard February 17, 2006, 8:46 pm

    “I said that these guys may have went too far because if you went to the blog I had a link to you would have seen that one of the guys had a cut off hand with a pen in it on a plater of some kind hanging from around his neck.   That is a bit stronger than a sign.”

    Is your objection because the sentiment is wrong or because it is extreme.

    If all the world says 2 + 2 = 3 and you say 2+ 2 = 4 you are an extremist.

    In one of the anti cartoon demonstrations there was a sign that said something like we shall drink the Jews (or someones) blood. They did that as part of the crowd. It was a million times more honorable and brave to be two going against the crowd than being part of the mob. What the two Labafers did was also much less offensive, and to my mind, dead on.

    “And, what about the political Evangelist or what about Israel and Palestine? Is Israel any better than Palestine? The list could go on forever.”

    Well, this takes some thinking, but sooner or later you do have to think about it. You have to grade the threats. The National Socialists had a policy that Jews were untermenschen. That gives you a kind of heads up on their ranking. As to political Islam, that beheading stuff and slogans like you like life and we love death tells one a lot.

    Are the Israelis as bad. I have heard some really goofy stuff by Ultra Orthodox types, but I have never heard we are going to drink their blood stuff. It seems to me that the Israeli attitude is we are going to survive so if you get in our way, its your tough luck.

    Political Evangelists? They seem to be pretty much on the neocon bandwagon. The ones I know (i.e the ones in my town who are always trying to convert me) seem to want to get people to find god rather than annihalate others. Again, a blood drinking sign would never happen.

  • Pumpkin Pie February 17, 2006, 9:05 pm

    No, I agree with you that a blood drinking sign would never happen because they are too clever for that.
    Have you seen the recent pictures of US soldiers torturing prisoners?

    All the other extremist are clever, but not innocent.

  • Richard February 17, 2006, 11:19 pm

    “Have you seen the recent pictures of US soldiers torturing prisoners?”

    I can’t say I know where to look for them as we do not have TV. I am sure I would not want to. There are two things that it says about us. First that our soldiers are doing it at all. Second, that there is not a national revulsion.

    Before, I said I was against the Iraq war and the Afghan war. I was against them because they were stupid more than they were immoral, though they were that. The US Army had spent the period after Viet Nam trying to improve the quality of troops. To a great extent they succeeded. The adventures we are in are saddening in they have succeedded in something else. If you saw The Passion of the Christ, there is tje scene where the Roman soldier are scourging Christ. The most disturbing aspect of it is they are emotionless about it. It is a bureaucratic job and they are fulfilling the plan. This is what empire is.

    “No, I agree with you that a blood drinking sign would never happen because they are too clever for that.”

    Who is it that you expect would like to show the sign but is too clever?

  • Pumpkin Pie February 18, 2006, 9:17 am

    Not that they would show a sign or do exactly the same thing but that they would do equally loathsome acts. The way someone reacts to a situation is based on their society. The society is not the same in the middle east. The way we say something and the meaning is not understood exactly the same way by other cultures. By them saying they are going to drink the blood of Jews I take it as them saying they want to make war and win thus killing many Jews. I think that all extremists are a not “normal” in how they react. They go over the deepend…they go too far. And, as I have said before we (normal sane people) are stuck cleaning up the mess. I would say that many of the leaders in the world today are encouraging this type of behavior with missunderstanding of other cultures (not really talking about extremist cultures) or being driven by money to abuse other cultures in the world to get what they want not thinking or really caring about the consequences. People that over react or encourage these extremist are just as guilty. I am not talking about stopping extremist from controling our world but by joining them at their level instead of keeping cool intelligent heads. I see alot of hate and discrimination in the world. I see alot of people working to get only what they want and need not thinking of another. I see people crying out only when they are touched by pain and not when it is another. I see many many reasons why extremist are growing in the world but noone really trys to stop it. They only sink down to the level of the extremist. If you have a crazy person at your door you don’t tease them or act crazy yourself to get rid of them. You deal with the problem intelligently.

  • Richard February 20, 2006, 10:59 pm

    “Not that they would show a sign or do exactly the same thing but that they would do equally loathsome acts.”

    I must say I find this disturbing. Just who is is that would do equally loathsome acts and what acts would they do?

  • Pumpkin Pie February 22, 2006, 6:30 pm

    I think several leaders and govenments in the world have done some pretty questionable things hiding behind the “War on Terror.” These acts were no different than the acts of the terrorist because these acts were not for protection of anyone from anything but for money, oil, power or hate.
    It still goes to the beginning of this conversation…the guys went too far with the cut off hand. They lowered themselves to the level of the ones that were demonstrating. Period.

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