I disagree that the clothes are more expensive. I shop at stores like Kiabi and I pay about what I did in the States. Not more and not less.

As far as the education and healthcare being covered by taxes and not really being free…I understand that. But, I also understand that these are available to everyone and not just the ones that can afford it which in the long run makes the country stronger.

I see “real” French with two or more children all the time.

The food in the States is cheeper for a reason. It is full of growth hormones and even the milk is from cows that are given drugs to make them produce more milk. Kids in America are eating and drinking all that crap and in the end the cost will be much higher…my opinion.

In France you can for the most part get by without a car whereas in the States it would never fly.

Many people in America don’t make enough money to get by even if they are working. I saw on tv that a woman was working three jobs just to live and pay back her student loans. I don’t think that is uncommon.

The cost of daycare in America is ridiculous. For one child it is over one hundred bucks. I have three small children. Kindergarten doesn’t start until age five and is only for half a day in most schools. There is no option for a full day.

But, we could go on forever. :)

In the end I love my life in France whereas I always felt like a caged animal in the States. I never saw more than work and bills and stress over the cost of the kids heathcare and college. Even if we would have stayed in the States we would have told the kids to go to college in France because we still would not be able to afford it in America.

For Cathy (and others who may be interested) Much of this article is apropos to our discussion:
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NzBiYTM0YWYxNjVmNTBmODA3MGIzYWJmYzJlOTE5MmU=&w=MA==

Pumpkin,et al – It is true that the VAT is included in the price while aux États-Unis, the sales tax is added on. However, it is the rare state that taxes food items, or, if food items are taxed, in most of the states that do it, it is on items deemed to be non-essential, i.e. salty snacks, candy, carbonated beverages. In no case does the tax approach the almost 20% VAT. In France, the VAT is added to EVERYTHING. My experience in shopping for food in France was that I found it to be more expensive. One couple in France who are friends of mine and who have lived in the U.S. are of the opinion that food is less expensive in the U.S. Louis la Vache can’t speak to the cost of diapers as he has no “calves” needing them. :-)

Also, I found that buying most other things in France was more expensive. It was actually cheaper for me to buy the after shave I prefer from L’Occitaine in California than to buy it in France. Ditto buying European-label music CDs. The same label in FNAC would be $2 – $3 less expensive for me to buy in California than at FNAC/Forum des Halles. Every time I went shopping for clothes in France, I found myself deferring the purchase until my next trip to the U.S. On my trips home, my French friends gave me lists of things to buy for them in the U.S. for the same reason – it was cheaper for me to bring it back for them than for them to buy it there.

As to the cost of education – Yes, it is expensive to go to college/university in the U.S. – BUT – it isn’t really free in France. That cost is buiit in to the horrible income tax rate.

While the minimum wage in France may be higher, governmental workplace restrictions add to the unemployment. For example, in the Jospin years when the work week was cut to 32 (?) 35(?) hours (I don’t remember which) – the intent was to force employers to hire more people by limiting the number of hours those already working could work. The reality of it was that the employers responded by firing their least productive workers, the logic being, “If I can only let Pierre and Marie work 35 hours, since Marie out-works Pierre, I’ll keep her because she gets more done.” So the effect was the opposite of the intent – it created more unemployment.

It doesn’t fit that there is less poverty in France than in the U.S. when the “official” unemployment rate is over 10% in France vs. less than 5% in the U.S., with the rate as high as 40% in many of the housing-project banlieues of France. Two of my French friends who work in the government have confided to me that the real unemployment rate is closer to 13% and in some parts of the country 15%, but the government, aided by media sycophants, won’t publish the real number because of the political fallout it would cause. Not to be argumentative in the pejorative sense of the term, but it just doesn’t equate that France has a lower poverty rate when the real unemployment rate is almost 3 times the rate in the U.S.

To further the point, in the U.S., even most of the lowest income people manage to own cars. In France few of the impoverished (and many of those who are technically not impoverished) can afford to own cars, not only because (on a comparative basis) buying a car is more expensive in France, but because the cost of operating one is astronomically higher than in the U.S. Even as the price of fuel has increased in the U.S., it has also increased in France and the equivalent cost of a gallon of fuel is over $6.00 en la belle France. There are reasons cars in France are so much smaller!

As the population of France ages – and the low birthrate among traditional French (as opposed to the birthrate among French of North African, African or Middle-Eastern descent) is increasing the average age – the burden of the welfare state becomes more onerous. Compounding the problem, those in France who ARE having children are those most likely to stay on welfare.

As I wrote yesterday, much of the tax base that funds the welfare state is “getting out of Dodge.” And those that are staying are not having children at a rate to sustain the population, much less continue paying for the welfare state.

When you have absurdities such as the still-largely communist union that controls the workers of the SNCF (the national rail system to those who don’t know) dictating that SNCF workers can retire at age 50 at full pay – and add the negative demographic trends to the mix, you have a formula for disaster.

The cost of health care in the U.S. has risen dramtically and most of that is attributable to govenrment meddling in the market forces. Government regulations both on health care providers and insurers took much of the incentive to control costs away from the health care providers and created the monstrosity we have today. But in the U.S., we don’t have the scandal of government “health agencies” telling us we can only have 1 dental exam every two years or creating situations where people needing surgery can’t get it because the national health care service says they can’t have it. This is true so long as we don’t get some version of “Hillarycare.” When I was living in France, there was a scandal, quickly hushed up, about filthy hospitals, particularly operating rooms. Yes, there is a scandal in the U.S. right now about conditions in the Walter Reed Army hospital (and other Army hospitals). This only proves the point about what happens when we put health care in the hands of the government.

As Ronald Reagan was fond of saying: “Government isn’t the solution. Government is the problem.”

As a mother that has shopped in both countries I don’t think things are higher here. First, the tax is included in the price at a French store where as in the states it is not. Secondly, the food here has a higher quality. If you compared the same quality in both countries you would end up paying more in America. I know because the grocery store I worked at was comparable to Europe in the and the food was much more expensive than at a regular grocery.

Plus, the French minimum wage is around 8 Euro while in America it is much much lower in most states. Ohio is around 6.75 bucks an hour but that just changed this year. Before that it was around 5.35 (I think). The median income is $32,611 for individuals and $46,326 for households. And I would like to add that there is a higher level of poverty in Ameirica than in France…there is a reason for that.

Diapers cost around 10 bucks in America for the low end cost but higher quality…and in France it is around 12 Euro but we buy the cheep diapers which work just fine at around 6 Euro here in France and I couldn’t find these in Ohio.

In France college is free and in the States it is outrageously expensive. For Angel to go to college where I did which was around 20 grand at that time…it will cost around 60 grand a year when she goes.

The cost of health care in America is unbelieveable even with insurance and most companies aren’t even sharing in the cost of employee insurance like they used to. I was paying over 350.00 bucks a month for our family while working at the bank. That doesn’t include co pays when visiting the doc at 20 bucks a pop or the prescription. My birth control pills cost about 12 bucks a month and here it is around 70 cents for two months.

So, as a mother of three children living in France with her…I think we are able to have a higher level of living here than in the States. And my kids will go to college no matter what. If they are sick it won’t break us financially. One month all three girls were sick and it cost 60 bucks for the office visit alone. When Sweet Bear was in Childrens for three days it was 200 bucks with insurance…plus the 50 bucks for her going to emergency before she was admited. Afterwards she had to visit the doc two more times because of it and that was was another 40 bucks. So, we were at close to 300 bucks without including the medicine or the monthly cost of just having insurance (which as I said before was around 350).

Vilay and I can make as much in France as in the States especially when you take into account the cost of education and health care in the States.

By the way, my husband has some relatives near Strasbourg, a retired couple, who live on only 600 Euros/month. I don’t know how they manage. Granted, they don’t have a mortgage (he inherited the house), but they still have to buy food and clothes, utilities for their house, and to maintain and run their car.